Dr. David Stuckenberg, Co-founder, and COO, Genesis Systems Discusses their State-of-the-Art Water Technologies that Provide Sustainable Water Resource Generation

By Dr. Allen Alper, PhD Economic Geology and Petrology, Columbia University, NYC, USA
on 5/14/2022
We spoke with Dr. David Stuckenberg, Co-founder, and COO of Genesis Systems LLC, a developer of new industrial technologies that provides sustainable water resource generation and environmental transformation. The Company focuses on developing and creating sustainable water solutions, in arid or water constrained environments. Genesis' technology generates water directly from the air, on industrial scales. It specializes in the fields of technology research, systems development, and resource sustainability. Genesis Systems has developed, created, and is placing state of the art, economy-altering, sustainable water solutions, in the most arid environments on earth—technology that generates water, directly from the air, at industrial scales. Genesis Systems is committed to leveraging innovation and technology, to create shared value for shareholders and end-users, by enhancing economies and our global quality of life, through the application of sustainable and environmentally responsible technologies. We also spoke to Victor Webb, who is a renowned pioneer in International Investor Relations. A journalist by training, he has worked for and contributed to several international newspapers. Mr. Webb is a former executive for Dow Jones in the United Kingdom and Managing Director of Dow Jones International Marketing Services, and an International Director of Dow Jones & Co., Inc.

Dr. Allen Alper: This is Dr. Allen Alper, Editor-in-Chief of Metals News, talking with Dr. David Stuckenberg, who was Co-Chairman of the Board and Co-Founder of Genesis Systems. David, I wonder if you could tell our readers/investors and mining executives about Your Company, and about your vision for how it will work. Also, you could tell our people about the global shortage of water and how your company fits in in helping to fill that gap.

Dr. David Stuckenberg: Absolutely. Well, thank you again for the opportunity to join you, Allen, so we can tell the story about what is going on. The issue of water scarcity is quickly moving to the fore of scarcity issues. When I worked at the Pentagon previously, I had access to the critical materials list (minerals, raw materials, etc.) and ores and things that we have in our strategic stockpile. I was always interested in those. I was always a little surprised that water was never one of those fundamental materials that was really looked at.

From a water standpoint, we tend to take water for granted, pretty much as most nations around the world do. Western society takes water fairly for granted, unless you've been one of those societies who has been shocked by its scarcity. We have increasing numbers of examples of those, from Cape Town to California all the way down to Australia. I want to help all of us to understand that water, next to air, is the fundamental ingredient for civilization.

Without water, life ceases to exist in three days. But, if we take that one tier higher, water can be thought of as the economic potential energy of a nation! As we get into an age, where many are beginning to agree on the fact that we have a similar situation to peak oil. You know, seeing the bygone days of oil gushing up from the ground, we’re seeing the bygone era of peak water; we've experienced peak water and as it becomes increasingly scarce, we're going to have to do new things to make sure the resources are available and think about it in new ways and to understand that it's going to be a well-considered cost of doing business.

So, that requires a fundamental shift away from legacy thinking, that water is plentiful, that water is low cost. Or certainly maybe that there's a cost involved in taking it away, if it's contaminated. But certainly, the day of water being available, plenteous, and almost no cost is drawing to an end! This requires a new change in thinking. As I answer your three questions, I want to frame out that water scarcity, I believe, is going to quickly become something at the forefront of the great power competition worldwide, which is fundamentally a competition of economics.

As China and other nations increasingly vie for a larger share of the economic pie, this is one of the areas that they have begun to really drill down into and understand better than the West does. I think part of that is because, notwithstanding the Belt and Road Initiative (BRI), China understands that about 90% of its water is unusable in terms of drinking water – it's contaminated. That really begins to change your thinking quite fundamentally.

The nations that our company deals with, and there are roughly 27 of them, who are approaching water scarcity and water bankruptcy, think very differently about society than do those nations where water is not a problem – such as in the Netherlands, where they've done a good job of managing their water supply (and have plenty of it). So first of all, we have to change our thinking about what this resource is and what it means to all of us.

Our Company was founded in 2016, with a very simple mission. It was unapologetic, with the youthful exuberance about the fact that we can change our future. We have been on that journey for almost six years now, and it's a very simple mission: sustainably solve global water scarcity! We can do that, through a number of innovations and technologies, to which we have access. For many years, I was in aerospace and regularly used systems to move goods and services and people around the world via an aircraft flying at 40,000 feet in the air.

These systems were integrated, and they worked well, and they were safe because they had been perfected over time. I believe there are systems, and our Company is helping develop some of those systems, that are going to be key to supply-side water – going forward. As we look at how to source sustainable water, we have to figure out one of the fundamentals, which is: where are we going to get this? Where are we going to get the material? When we look at groundwater and we look at lakes and rivers and aquifers, these have been depleted at a rate that’s quite astonishing.

We can see in certain instances where, even if there is a shrinkage in usage that is predicted, such as in Cape Town, South Africa, the depletion can become rapidly accelerated by other features such as drought or increases in usage. Behind water scarcity is water bankruptcy. And that means this life-giving material is out. This has enormous implications for businesses and industry, and it doesn't matter what segment you are in, whether it's mining or you're a dry cleaner.

Water is part of your business, and it has been taken largely for granted, both in terms of infrastructure and supply and we can no longer do that. Genesis was founded, with one simple mission, and that is to solve global water scarcity and sustainably, with technology. The five and six years of very deep research that we have done, on how to apply technologies towards the problem, and solving it so we did not create second and third order effects, have helped us understand that in the future we're going to take our water from the sky, which is where rainwater comes from. But we're going to begin to do that through harvesting, what we call, your water cube. Next to every human being on Earth is a 29 x 29-foot box or a cubed space. This water cube contains your daily water needs.

By allowing you to access that water cube, we can change the paradigm for humanity. We do this by changing the fact that since humans have walked upright on two legs, we have taken our water from condensed sources, lakes and rivers, and streams. But now we're going to be taking that vapor from the air and we're going to be able to do it at scale. We're going to be able to do it at a cost point that approaches desalinization, in terms of efficiency, as we plug this into green energy sources and sustainable ways of making the power to generate the water, whether that's geothermal, wind, or green energy.

These concepts are available to us now, the technologies are here now, and some of the advancements have been spurred, in part, by the developments in liquid technologies, surrounding batteries and other industries. We are capitalizing on those advancements, as a Company, and we have developed a technology that overcomes two problems. It overcomes the issues that have always bound atmospheric water generation, which are (1) the inability to scale and (2) the inability to generate water efficiently, because of the methodologies that were used. And so, as I close on my opening comments, the challenges of those legacy systems are associated with the fact that they use air as a working medium. What they're trying to do is chill air to the dew point, and to do so is working against physics.

If you think about it, you're going uphill all the time. You're trying to change the temperature of an insulator. We use it in your attic and the walls in your home, between layers of clothing in a cool climate. We don't do that. Our system moves away from this legacy thinking, and it allows us to use liquids as a new working medium. By using liquids, we're able to move away from air-based systems, which are controlled by the gas law and a number of levers that are finite – to liquids which are tunable in 100,000 different ways.

Through creating different kinds of combinations of liquids, we can attain different properties and we can essentially create designer things that do what we need to do – in terms of efficiency and scale. When we talk about the ability to scale up, our technologies aren't just able to make hundreds of gallons a day, we can make millions of gallons a day. And we're beginning to roll those pilot plants out now and are seeing strong interest in demand, worldwide, for these kinds of capabilities, so that a business segment can have a secure source of water for their supply chain or for their functions.

Dr. Allen Alper: Sounds excellent! Do you have patentable technology?

Dr. David Stuckenberg: Yes, we have a portfolio of patents that is broad. We have a very interesting patent strategy that I won't get into on this call with you, but it's a well-managed portfolio and is certainly defendable internationally. But we also have a lot of trade secrets involved in how we do our process, and that combination of factors, patents and trade secrets, allows us to ensure that this is not a technology that's going to walk out the door.

We have had a lot of interest in international investment, within the Company. That interest continues to grow, and we will be preparing to make an offering available in Q2/Q3 of 2022. It'll be a modest offering, but I think that this is going to be a very unique company, because its technology is sustainable. It has been developed in a way that does not cause second- and third-order effects, but it really begins to meet the true needs of the marketplace, in that we're already seeing extraordinarily high-demand for the product and we're having to prioritize projects in terms of where we go first.

We're also very proud to be working with elements from the Department of Defense and Ministries of Defense, from around the world, to help them understand how to begin meeting their own needs and how to begin fortifying their infrastructure, so that they never come up against day zero or scarcity in the way that it can affect human lives. And I would tell you that there are nations right now on Earth, smart, educated nations that have allowed themselves to go down to one and a half days’ worth of water for the entire country's population, and they're making it as they use it, whether it's through desalinization or whatever.

We need to prioritize these kinds of technologies towards critical functions, industry, and infrastructure and companies in countries, where they're up against a dire need, and begin to buy them time. That's what Genesis can do, buy time and secure that element that is good for whatever your business or supply chain needs are.

One of the great things that we do is overcome the need for a water source. If you were inland from an ocean, you would have to go over land, potentially hundreds of miles with some sort of infrastructure piping, ducting, or whatever. You don't need that with this. We can create it at the point of need on demand. By being able to do that, this really gives us an extraordinary cost benefit, that when coupled with the ability to scale, really becomes competitive, from a cost standpoint, in terms of traditional ways of getting water.

The final point I'll make, is that we've looked at water supply and what the cost is. And just in the 30 largest cities in the U.S. over the last decade, water has increased in cost 40%. And the next five years in Texas, that water, in just North Texas, is expected to go up 70%. All things being equal, if legacy sources of water continue to go up in cost, we're going to continue to drive down costs as we seek greater efficiencies in our products.

As a result, over time, we believe we will be one of the lower cost forms of water. We're a Company that can provide water your way, whether for a farmer in California who is having to worry about whether he's using too much water to irrigate. Or whether for a data center in Tucson that just spent $34 million on a six-mile pipeline. Case in point, IBM. These are savings that we'd like to pass on to end users, as we move them towards sustainable forms of water or water positivity. Water positive means a company has offset its water use to actually put water back into supplies.

I think we need to move into a mindset that understands that our ancient water supplies took hundreds of years to establish and we're drawing them out in decades. There's a better way forward now, and I'm really proud of the Genesis’ Team for pioneering in this area.

Dr. Allen Alper: That sounds excellent! David, you mentioned something about a pilot plant, at what stage are you in establishing a pilot plant?

Dr. David Stuckenberg: We have several around the country. I'll mention the most visible and public first. There're some I can't because of disclosure agreements, but at this point we have a very exciting plant that we're going to be rolling out, later this year or early next, at the Port of San Antonio. It is going to be on Kelly Air Force Base, which is an annex to the Lackland Air Force Base - the main training center for the U.S. Air Force.

The Port of San Antonio is a unique place, in terms of why we're there. I'll just mention a couple of the highlights. Number one, it's a very innovative leadership Team that understands the complex dynamics, in play, between environment, security, and business. This is a city that was hit, about a year ago, with a winter storm that knocked out a greater part of the water supply. It's also a city that responds quickly to events and real-world conditions, that has always been forward leaning, and understands that it needs to create resilience across the city.

Part of the effort, that makes San Antonio very unique, is that it is the seventh largest metropolitan area in the United States. Joint Base San Antonio is the largest federal complex in the United States, in that there are more than 13 military installations and federally owned properties there, under the command of Brig Gen Miller. So, there is an initiative that now has 600 partners, including the Department of Defense and the Department of Energy. It's a White House benchmarked program, as I understand it, and this program is led by a one star general.

It's called the San Antonio Electromagnetic Defense Initiative. This is an infrastructure resilience initiative that looked at water, food, sanitation, power and telecommunications. All of these things together allow society to operate holistically. And what the city has experienced, in the past, are impacts from weather and power outages and things like that that impact the economy. Certainly, the Port of San Antonio experienced an interruption during a winter storm, that gave them a greater impetus, beyond the forward looking that they were already doing, pioneering these programs, to say, “What is the water piece of this and how do we begin to ensure water resiliency?”

There's a holistic effort in that. One of the pilot plants will be established there, to help study this and research it. This is a small plant. It'll be generating a thousand gallons a day initially. We're also looking at other plants across Texas that will do much greater volumes and even as far as Botswana and Curacao that are scaled up to the millions of gallons per day. And certainly, I’d be remiss if I didn't mention California.

The biggest challenge, I would say, with new technologies is risk aversion. What if it doesn't work? I think a lot of people are realizing that if we don't begin to test and implement new technologies, then we're really going to see second- and third-order effects that pose a greater risk than if we took risks trying new things. In the Department of Defense, there's an old saying for pilots, who find the aircraft in an out-of-control attitude. And that is, you have to recognize that you are out of control. You have to confirm what you need to do, to get back in control. And then you need to do it. I think for the most part, a lot of the public and private sector, right now, is still recognizing that they're in an out-of-control situation, with respect to the water supply and the supply chain impacts, in the industry. Now they have to start looking at the things that they need to do to recover and start applying those controls, start investing in those solutions now, before they get up against water scarcity. Or now before drought accelerates that scarcity toward bankruptcy.

Dr. Allen Alper: David, what is the timing on the San Antonio pilot plant?

Dr. David Stuckenberg: That is due to roll out in 2022-2023.

Dr. Allen Alper: Oh, that's fantastic. David, I wonder if you could tell our readers/investors, executives and engineers a little bit about yourself, your Team, and your advisors.

Dr. David Stuckenberg: I grew up an entrepreneur in rural Oklahoma, but I was born in California - I'm a native of Santa Barbara. And what is astonishing, as an adult, is to see the places where I swam as a kid and then later moved to rural Oklahoma and grew up in this town called Nowata, but those places, they're bowls of dust now, and that is alarming to me.

But growing up in Oklahoma, which is a place where the tribal heritage allowed a lot of places to be named for what happened there, whether it was Skiatook, or whatever, where the tornado happened or Nowata, where water ran out, or Oilton where you have a lot of oil. So predominantly, I was a young entrepreneur in the family business of ranching, growing up. And then when I was a young adult, I went into the Air Force, with a background in aviation. I later moved into engineering, in my undergrad and then became a pilot and a combat veteran of most of the challenges the United States faced after 9-11.

After a time in the aviation industry, I was drawn into national security strategy and international affairs, I have a PhD in the latter. It has always been interesting, because I've always been surprised at how little foresight, we exercise, in terms of the international scheme. We tend to allow things to happen that are preventable. Hindsight, they say, is always 20/20. But when you spend a lot of time in research and analysis, you begin to see a lot of the warnings and indicators early.

I actually had a fundamental shaping event in 2016. I was deployed to Al Udeid Air Base in Qatar, and at that time I was flying the KC-135 in and out of Afghanistan. Every morning I would come back to this air base, located in Qatar, and there would be hundreds of water tanker trucks lined up end to end at near the end of the runway, where we would make our approach. For weeks I wondered what these were, and I finally found out that from an engineer that they were pumping water out of the last native aquifer in the country.

I knew what that meant. I knew that here was a center of operations for not only NATO, but a nation's military. And that next to it were two large cities, and that once that water was gone, they were completely dependent on one source of water and that was an artificial source from the sea, a desalinated source. Those were things that I began to realize some time ago. Through my own research, I really began to take on a greater understanding of the fact that water has always, throughout history, been used as something to put leverage on people, whether it's an enemy or a competitor.

If I'm going to starve you out downstream and you're my competitor, I'm going to dam your water and prevent that from flowing downstream. And there is nothing settled internationally, within the body of law, with respect to who owns water. Certainly, I think over the last 12 months, I've been astounded to see worldwide constitutions, beginning to actually put, within their constitutional rights, a right to water for human beings living in this state. This is new. Some states in the United States are beginning to do that as well.

It's very interesting. I think the importance of water is coming to the fore, but I think that there are many elements and exponents of society, where we still hope the problem goes away. In terms of approaches, what you see, by and large, throughout most of the United States and even included in the infrastructure bill, is something of a legacy “get well” strategy. It would be similar to trying to treat a cancer patient, knowing all that we know about science and medicine, with remedies and things that we did back in the 40s and 50s.

If you look at our infrastructure strategies and our spending plans and the way that the grants are being led and so forth, it's very interesting, because it doesn't inspire new thinking - it doesn't challenge us to move forward to a new paradigm. It's mired in the past, and it tries to update the old and do the same thing over again. If you want to think about trying to relay and re-pipe and update all of the plumbing in Rome, it's just not doable. The same is true for the United States, you just can't do it. It's too big an effort and there's not enough money to go around.

We really can think of better ways forward, such as to find out how to generate our water supply, which makes it more resilient; how to generate water at the local level, how industries can go about creating their own water supply. That's a data center that uses a lot of water and can be water neutral or even water positive – that can be done. If it's a mine that has been struggling due to diminished upstream water or water from a lake or a stream and/or an aquifer and they want to be water positive by giving water back into the water table – that is now possible.

By federating water supplies, by making it generatable at a local level, we bypass a lot of the legacy infrastructure issues. We bypass a lot of the issues that are trying to hold old pipes and replace old things, with the same things, where you just get into this never-ending process. It's about transcending that former reality. We have the capability to do this now, in terms of technology. So, let's move there. I think that unlike a lot of technologies that are hard to adopt and that have a long period of ideation before people will put them into use, this new way of generating water is going to catch on a lot like the cell phone, where we can cut the landline and go mobile. With it, our productivity goes way up, and we're no longer constrained. We can begin to transform the value of lands that were once not arable. We can begin to reverse trends, with respect to wells drying out, at the rate of 30, or whatever they are a day right now, in terms of the pivot arm irrigators.

Eventually, the Midwest is going to be back to a dust bowl, if it doesn't change the way that business is done, in terms of water. So, I believe that transformation is now underway. I believe that the light bulbs are beginning to go on. I believe that people are becoming much more intellectually engaged in the challenge space and beginning to see the solutions. I am very proud of Genesis as a Company for being a pioneer in this area.

We recently won a Startup of the Year, for the United States, and in doing so, for the first time in nine years of the competition, they created a new award for us, because we broke away from the next 100 companies, in terms of what we were doing, in terms of fundraising, and business traction. So now it's about harnessing that and really putting it into practice and executing. And so, we're looking forward to continuing to find willing partners, in all fields and all industries, who wish to become early adopters. This is about solving it. We have the solution set, now it's about implementation. It's about finding those folks willing to embrace new and embrace change, embrace innovation, embrace sustainability, and to begin realizing all the benefits of it.

Dr. Allen Alper: That sounds excellent. David, in order to do this, you must have a technical group, either consultants or working with you, who are participating in this project. Could you say a few words about that?

Dr. David Stuckenberg: We have a deep bench; I will tell you that. Five years ago, we were really one of the only games in town, in terms of sustainable water technology. We took advantage of that, and we ran fast. We built a lot of momentum and pulled in some of the most forward-thinking leaders and innovators that we could find, from across America. Whether they were former governors or admirals or members of the Apollo engineering Team and the von Braun Team. But for us it's about creating true diversity of thought, in the way that we approach the problem solving. It doesn't matter what you have, in terms of a background, if you understand the problem, in the right way, then you can start being part of the solution.

We built that Team early, we continue to build on it, finding some of the finest, not only engineering, but business minds that are part of the talent around our nation. We bring them in, we ask them to help advise, and we brief them on what's going on. We're at a very interesting point now, where we have a lot of business executives and national security leaders come to the door of our Company to receive information from us and to learn about what's going on. And it's always interesting when certain federal agencies bring national sovereigns to the front door of your Company.

It's not an endorsement, but it does say something about the way you're thinking and about the way you're approaching the problem. When they begin telling those national sovereigns that this is the technology that you need to fortify your GDP, that's also interesting. That's our mission. We're not proud about it, in the sense that we want to bang on our chest. But what we are proud of is that we're going to be a very useful organization, in intervening in a crisis that is unfolding now and in a crisis that is going to worsen before it gets better.

Growing up in Oklahoma, I did without. There were times when I was hungry and there were times when I was thirsty, and it was a rough upbringing. I appreciate the things that we have, and I appreciate the basics. I think Warren Buffett gave us all very good advice, he said, “You need to figure out how to be in the essential business” and that's the core focus of Genesis. Being the essential business, so that humanity is stable, able to have the things they need and so that economies are healthy. Because when you take those things away, it's the first element, the first plank that you pull out from under democracy, it's what allows tyranny and death to begin to go to work on a population.

As a Company, we consider ourselves a direct contributor to the stability of nations and to positively transform GDP's of nations, where water is a constraining factor. I'm also thoroughly convinced that we're a Company that supports 17 of 17 of the UN's SDGs. We've often had arguments, internally, about whether or not it was 16 or 17, because diplomacy was certainly one of the 17 that, at one time, was difficult to draw a direct line to. But given the level of discussions we've been in, from the prime minister level to embassies, regarding water supplies and helping them in their thinking about water, we understand water is also a part of diplomacy.

These are things that we're moving forward on. We're a very forward-thinking Company. This is going to be transformative technology. It's going to be transformative for the companies that use it, because again, they're going to have more autonomy in the way they operate, more control over the supply chain, more stability and ultimately price predictability, and things those good businesses require. We're looking forward to making those things available as we mature as a Company.

Dr. Allen Alper: That sounds excellent! Victor, I was wondering if you could state your thoughts on how this technology might sit in the mining industry.

Victor: Well, it's clear that producing and perfecting metals takes huge amounts of water. And if you simply glance and do a Google on water and mining, there are scores of stories now of people talking about the way in which water is used today in mining. Secondly, the scarcity of water. And nowhere does that message resonate more than among investors. Not simply miners, but people who are spending millions in supporting mining development around the world.

The countries: South Africa, for example, Canada and Australia, the Latin American producers, Argentina, Brazil, Venezuela and so forth, all of them are now concerned about water. The headline of most of the stories are that the biggest risk that an investor would see is a scarcity of water. It's becoming at the top of the consciousness of the mining sector. I think that David's WaterCube™ machine should be the standby by for many of these mining companies, in fairly remote regions, and especially in very warm regions, where droughts and various other things are commonplace.

I think a Genesis machine will become an obvious alternative to trying to find natural sources of water and so on. That's the way I see it now, and in order to promote that idea, we should have David talk as often as possible to leaders, in the mining sector.

Dr. David Stuckenberg: To build on that, I just sent you an article from Fitch that essentially pegs water as really the top risk to mining industry. I'm not saying solutions, like mine, are the right answer for every situation. But I am saying that we can draw on a bias toward action that says we need to begin to mitigate risks to these critical segments, especially within mining, especially where some of the critical ores and metals are concerned. We need to begin to fortify those supply side sources now, with new technologies, new formats and move away from the legacy thinking that has oftentimes dogged industry, because it's been mired in paradigms of the past, or old ways of doing business.

We have a world that we get just one of and it has always made sense, since the very first early legends of Johnny Appleseed, to take care of it and to be good stewards of it. To me, it doesn't necessarily have to be an issue that becomes political, in terms of where you weigh in on the spectrum. This is just good business sense. I think there are wide applications, across many sectors, from the camps that support mining operations and quality of life to, the need for large amounts of water. There are solutions for each of these scenarios that are increasingly economically competitive. And while they may not be the lowest cost-free water that we're used to, in the legacy sense of thinking, they can be part of a better way of doing business that attracts customers to the product and begins to differentiate one thing from another.

I think you can see some of those trends. On the S&P around 2012, it really became quite noticeable that the companies that were really beginning to invest in ESG and sustainability, on the overall value side, were apparently breaking away from the herd, in terms of the value of those companies and the health of those investments. Certainly, there are a lot of other driving factors, but that was definitely one of them. And I think this can play into that holistic way of doing business that is smarter and greener and more sustainable. One which demonstrates good governance and good stewardship.

Dr. David Stuckenberg: At the end of the day, the mining industry people are the folks, who give us the raw material to build civilization, they're extraordinary servants of industry and free trade and a free market system. But they are going to have to change behaviors and modulate for the times and the conditions.

I think they have some good options ahead of them, great options to be quite candid. I know there's been a lot of mines even shut down, over water scarcity and the challenges with resources. These are not impediments that need, by any means, to be permanent. There are new ways to generate water, sustainably, at the point of need and in high volume. These are problems that can be worked through together. What Genesis is doing, over the next 24 to 36 months, is really prioritizing key segments, in terms of its pilot plants and looking at where we can put these demonstrators and where we can prove their value and utility. This is absolutely one of those areas for which we would love to find a partnership and find a locale and a unique need, to begin to showcase, a collaborative problem solving, working with industry, and working with new technologies.

Then we can use that as an example to show others what they can do as well. It's a little bit like being the first guy to do something that's never been done before. Once you try it and you don't fall on your face, everybody else is willing. So, let's just be leaders here and lead better solutions forward. I really appreciate what you both are doing to help get the story told.

Certainly, Victor, you've identified this as a high need area. I was really disappointed today to see the list of critical technologies come out from the White House and among the two dozen or so technologies and the four dozen sub-technology groups, water is nowhere on the radar. But it is required for everything we do, and it is required for everything we mine. And even more importantly, if you consider yourself in the oil business, you're never going to get the oil out now without water.

Victor: That’s absolutely true.

Dr. David Stuckenberg: It's just becoming that fundamental. But is it still largely taken for granted We'll shift thinking and it'll start with stories and articles and opinion pieces to tell the story.

Victor: It's been inspiring, thanks so much, David.

Dr. Allen Alper: This is very important technology for the mining industry!

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